Epic Games vs Apple

SacredWarrior

Umbra Witch
So for those who aren't aware, Epic Games (creator of Fortnite) has gone to war with Apple and personally I hope Epic loses and loses hard.

What started this whole war was Epic trying to have their cake and eat it too by trying to make their microtransactions for Fortnite unique to the app and as one would expect, Fornite got delisted from the App Store for violating Apple's TOS. Epic's response is to sue Apple :rolleyes:

I'm definitely on Apple's side with this one and Epic is just being a bunch of hypocrites because if a developer tried to do the same thing on the Epic Games Store, they'd throw a huge tantrum and go nuclear on their asses!

I'm definitely gonna be enjoying this fight and I can't wait to see Apple destroy Epic!

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both companies are greedy.

apple has a monopoly on iOS program and game sales

epic games is blatantly greedy with it’s lootboxes targeted towards children.

and they’re both already filthy rich companies.

just another day in the hell world we call capitalism
 
Okay, let's shed some light about this.
No offense, but after reading this post, I assume you haven't done research on the topic, and that's fine, you're allowed to have your own opinion, just make sure you have done research before posting a thread about it.

And although I am inclined to agree with @Capri or @SacredWarrior in this, I am convinced that Epic is doing the right thing.

Okay let's start by refuting some of your loosely-based claims.

(First of all, Epic Games does not have lootboxes. People know exactly what they're purchasing at all times.)

Epic trying to have their cake and eat it, too.
Okay, so this is entirely untrue. Epic Games introduced a system for consumers to save 20% on their purchases permanently, while paying Epic Games directly, which isn't allowed on the Apple Store. Apple takes a humongous cut of 30% of Epic's profits, ultimately inconveniencing US - the consumers. If you had to choose between $9.99 and $7.99 for the same product - which would you choose? View attachment 8307
The second part of this is that Epic is loosing a lot of revenue by doing this. We're talking billions of dollars. They are losing a whole heccin LOT of money by doing this. They knew this was going to happen, evidenced by the fact that Epic had this cutscene ready.
Spotify and Netflix had this problem, too - and Spotify even applauded Epic for what they were doing. I do, too.
View attachment 8308



If a developer tried to do the same thing on the Epic Games Store, they would do the same thing.
Here's the problem with this.
While it's true that Epic does take a cut of the games on their platform as well - 15%, half that of Apple - the fact remains that you can get, let's say, farming simulator on OTHER PLATFORMS. Not JUST the Epic store. It's the creator's choice of where to put the games, and if they choose Epic, they'll get a cut.
Fair, right?
Not with Apple.
With Apple taking a cut of 30%, which is already unfair, you CANNOT put your apps, if you were a developer, on an apple device without it going through the Apple Store. It's not going to happen. AND Apple has the majority of the phone market right now - 60 or 70% - which means if you want to be successful with your games, it gonna have to go through Apple - and the Apple Store.
Google is better about this - they have the Samsung store, and other stores, on the Play Store, making it a lot more fair, and allowing their users, even though fortnite is banned on the Play Store, to get it anyway. Short of jailbreaking your phone, this is impossible on Apple.

You stated in your post, or heavily implied, that Apple was completely just in Epic's breaking TOS, with the reasoning being, I assume, that the TOS are very fair and have never been bent to the convenience of anyone.
In this, I would draw your attention to the deal made between Amazon and Apple, where the TOS have been bended.

Now I would like to draw your attention to the fact that a lot of people think this is just Apple and Epic.
Oh, no.
This is MUCH bigger than Fortnite.
If things change in a significant way for Apple, small-time creators and app developers get a big bonus because they have to pay that 30% to Apple. (On TOP of taxes.)
And it's not just this.
It got bigger.
Apple announced that if Epic does not comply by August 28th, they are going to remove Epic entirely from Apple.
Which, unfortunately, includes Unreal Engine, a development engine that a lot of games, not just mobile games, use. It's a great tool and a humongous help to small buisnesses. If Apple takes it away, many games (including B.o.T., Shurado, Even Pubg mobile, one of Epic's direct competitors.) will cease to function.
This could get real messy.
Real fast.

My hope with this post is to bring to light a lot of information it seems you don't know, and maybe, just maybe, change your mind. I dislike Fortnite too, but this is about the future of the fastest growing entertainment industry. Epic's decision to fight for change in the midst of a very large loss of revenue, has earned my respect in a way a corporation hasn't done for years. Our world may be Capatalism Hell, but that doesn't mean we can't change it.

#FreeFortnite
 
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And @Capri , why post if you don't care?

it’d bc ppl go into these long rambling rants about epic v apple when there is shit out there that are actually affecting people’s lives and then those same people are like “i don’t really wanna deal with that stuff”

they should use that effort they made to defend apple or epic to make a social change, become an advocate, change things before it’s too late.

being distracted by this petty feud is literally gonna bring us nowhere.

that’s why

i’m not telling you i don’t care

i’m telling you you shouldn’t
 
@Capri
It DOES matter. It DOES affect people's lives. Look around you. Small-time game devs are everywhere. Trying to push their product. To make a living. That's why I'm telling you you should care. This is bigger than two companies going at it. This affects people's LIVES. This is a leading case that could affect the WORLD. This is about bigger companies taking advantage of smaller ones.
It's also about a company trying to fight for change for once. If we can't celebrate that, what use are we?
If you really don't care about that, or think I shouldn't, I find it very sad.
 
@Capri
It DOES matter. It DOES affect people's lives. Look around you. Small-time game devs are everywhere. Trying to push their product. To make a living. That's why I'm telling you you should care. This is bigger than two companies going at it. This affects people's LIVES. This is a leading case that could affect the WORLD. This is about bigger companies taking advantage of smaller ones.
It's also about a company trying to fight for change for once. If we can' celebrate that, what use are we?
If you really don't care about that, I find it very sad.

but that’s not what epic is fighting for, epic is fighting for their own greedy money because that’s what corporations do.

epic tried to make indie devs sign exclusivity contracts so that their games can only be sold on the epic store. they do not care for the small indie devs, only the bottom line.
 
@Capri
Did you not read my thing?
Did you just pop back in so you could reiterate things without reading my argument first? Or providing any evidence?
Okay, say whatever you want to about Epic, that they're greedy. That they don't care.
But if this works, this will change things. Actual change. This will improve people's lives.

And yes, you are being such a giant freaking advocate for whatever problems by saying people shouldn't care about stuff on a roleplay site.

Come back when you've read my thing, and then maybe we can have a discussion about a topic you know something about.
 
@Capri
Did you not read my thing?
Did you just pop back in so you could reiterate things without reading my argument first? Or providing any evidence?
Okay, say whatever you want to about Epic, that they're greedy. That they don't care.
But if this works, this will change things. Actual change. This will improve people's lives.

And yes, you are being such a giant freaking advocate for whatever problems by saying people shouldn't care about stuff on a roleplay site.

Come back when you've read my thing, and then maybe we can have a discussion about a topic you know something about.

i did, and i somewhat agree.

i can only see this ending badly, though, and as such i’m ending the argument.

i don’t trust my temper enough to get into this debate.

also, i just have better things to do than argue over the internet.
 
Apple takes a humongous cut of 30% of Epic's profits, ultimately inconveniencing US - the consumers.
That's an industry standard. You do realize that right? ALL stores do this. So why isn't Epic angry at Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo for this? They do the exact same thing! Epic can afford that 30% and it hasn't inconvenienced them so far. They aren't small-time devs. They're a large corporation. Don't feel bad for them AT ALL. Especially with the scummy shit they've pulled with the Epic Games Store. They aren't gonna die just because they're losing money. They can afford it. They just don't want to. The same could be said for Apple too but the way they operate when it comes to their products is literally what the console makers do yet Epic isn't fighting them. I wonder why?

With Apple taking a cut of 30%, which is already unfair, you CANNOT put your apps, if you were a developer, on an apple device without it going through the Apple Store. It's not going to happen. AND Apple has the majority of the phone market right now - 60 or 70% - which means if you want to be successful with your games, it gonna have to go through Apple - and the Apple Store.
The big 3 console makers (and Valve) do this too so I fail to see the issue here. Also Epic accusing Apple and Google of having a monopoly literally shows how stupid they are. They compete against each other which just shows what the exact opposite of a monopoly is. If Apple has the majority of the phone market, it shows that they're doing their job right even if their business practices (and some of their products) suck. They're like consoles and Androids are like PCs if that makes sense.

Apple announced that if Epic does not comply by August 28th, they are going to remove Epic entirely from Apple.
Which, unfortunately, includes Unreal Engine, a development engine that a lot of games, not just mobile games, use. It's a great tool and a humongous help to small buisnesses. If Apple takes it away, many games (including B.o.T., Shurado, Even Pubg mobile, one of Epic's direct competitors.) will cease to function.
This could get real messy.
Real fast.
Now this I agree with. Although I'm not THAT big on mobile gaming, it's not fair to punish other developers just because one developer is being a greedy asshole.
 
@SacredWarrior You say 30% is an industry standard, while Epic, the very company you're accusing of being greedy, only takes 12%.

I would like to bring up how the companies you've referenced - Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, have consoles solely made to be able to play games. Apple is a phone company pimarily (Yes, they sell other stuff, too). What Epic is trying to say is that, as a phone functions almost identically to a computer, (Because, technically, it is) it should have the same rules. Apple has a complete monopoly on their phones, something that isn't available with computers because they're just different. Epic's point is they shouldn't be.

I would also like to bring up for the second time that yes, Epic is a big corporation and yes, Epic exists to make money. I do not agree with many things they've done, but in this case, I believe they are doing the right thing. Apple takes advantage and has an unfair proverbial stranglehold on developers.

And yes, this may be Epic being greedy, but the evidence, such as Epic providing permanent discounts, leads me to believe they are not.
 
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