Is it ok to burn an american flag?

Kris

The Fallen Writer
I personally am a strong believer that the flag should not be burned unless done so in the proper ceremony. but I know a great many people believe otherwise and I would like to hear there views on the subject.
 
I completely agree with you.
The American flag should be fully respected and given all honors when laid to rest.
Some people might see the flag as a depiction of the government and all those in power that they may or may not agree with, and this, I believe, is the main cause of people being ok with the burning of the flag.
To me though, the flag represents a far different faction.
To me, the flag represents all those fighting for America, defending it and doing their best to help those in other countries.
And to me, this is not something to disrespect.
I understand that some people might not agree with what our military does, but I would like them to understand that, in my view, those that fight are fighting for what they believe in. They're fighting for an idealistic America and safety for their loved ones.
To me that is not something to disrespect.
The flag of America flies high because they fought to protect it. Even if the reality of America is painful to behold, it's the ideal that our soldiers hold in mind when going to war, and to me, that is beautiful.
 
Yes. For any reason, respectful or disrespectful. If the point of the flag is to symbolize freedom, then it would be the saddest irony in the world to tell people that they are not free to do as they please with it--regardless of how you feel.

Also, it's an object. No matter how sacred, it is not more important than a person'¢ right to expression. Where do you draw the line? If you can't burn the flag, what about the Bible? What about the Quran? What about Buddhist prayer beads? What about the flags of other countries? Confederate flag? Nazi flag? Communist flag? What about medals? What about...

... I think I've made the point.
 
It is not just a object. It is a simbol of your country.

As a very patriotic person, I know vhat my reaction wuld be if I ever seen any piece of shit burning my country's flag. That person wuld end up in a hospital vith a concussion and a few stitches. Nobody disses my country while I'm around. Or if they do, they beter hope I dont catch them.

If you live in any country, you are to respect it. R E S P E C T . If you dont, get the fuck out, or be thrown out on your ass. So on the topic of American flag burning, I have no real opinion since it dont concern me. But if I wer American and seen that, my reaction wuld be the same as above. As is, if I seen that, wel I wuldnt like it much, thats for sure, but its none of my business and I wuldnt get involved over something that dont matter to me. Personaly, just a opinion, you guys go WAY too easy on traitorus shitheads who do that. Freedom of expresion goes ONLY so far until it starts to destabilize a society. If and vhen it does, it needs to be cut down a notch.
 
It really depends with me. Most of the time I don't support it because how symbolic and important our flag is. However, if our country needed a HUGE protest to show that we won't take crap from our own government, then MAYBE burn at least ONE FLAG.
 
It is not just a object. It is a simbol of your country.

As a very patriotic person, I know vhat my reaction wuld be if I ever seen any piece of shit burning my country's flag. That person wuld end up in a hospital vith a concussion and a few stitches. Nobody disses my country while I'm around. Or if they do, they beter hope I dont catch them.

If you live in any country, you are to respect it. R E S P E C T . If you dont, get the fuck out, or be thrown out on your ass. So on the topic of American flag burning, I have no real opinion since it dont concern me. But if I wer American and seen that, my reaction wuld be the same as above. As is, if I seen that, wel I wuldnt like it much, thats for sure, but its none of my business and I wuldnt get involved over something that dont matter to me. Personaly, just a opinion, you guys go WAY too easy on traitorus shitheads who do that. Freedom of expresion goes ONLY so far until it starts to destabilize a society. If and vhen it does, it needs to be cut down a notch.

If burning an inanimate object is all it takes to destabilize a country, then the country was never strong nor courageous enough to warrant existence in the first place. Culture, honour, courage, compassion, mercy, forgiveness--all characteristics which are immaterial. A person expressing rage against an object does not warrant an emotional response when you can purchase that object for $9.99 at a corner store and it's mass produced in casual fashion. If a person wants to purchase an item and then destroy it, the only person they are damaging is themselves--via the wanton destruction of their own property and wasted currency that the businessman will simply pocket and move on with. If a person steals someone else's flag and burns it, that is already a crime--theft under $5,000 and destruction of property, and should be prosecuted accordingly as per that set of laws, via an impartial judge and jury.

If we are to build a society of free men, built upon the foundation of generations of slain patriots, then we should honour their memory by embodying that which they valued and found most beloved... Which, overwhelmingly, were the ideas of their nation, not the symbols which represented it. The American flag elicits as much love as it does because of what it represents--not what it is--which is just a piece of fabric with a pattern woven into it.

I love my country's flag. This beautiful piece of nature to me represents multiculturalism and the bravery to accept that which is different from oneself. To build a society of a hundred cultures woven together on the same ground, working together toward the same common good of man. To another, it may represent centuries of imperialism and mass murder, and to them may be a symbol of disgust--the symbol of a conqueror. Whose feelings are more right? Mine? Why? Theirs? Why? What makes the feelings of one person any more or less valid than any other? Citizenship? Blood rights? Whoever happened to be born there first?

Freedom of Expression is one of the most valuable rights we have as a free nation. Without it, we are no better than the barbarians who blow up towers or mail sarin gas to people's houses. The first step toward forging a dystopian, authoritarian nightmare wherein perfectly innocent people are imprisoned, silenced, and murdered, is to state, with one voice, in many variations and languages...

"Your feelings are worth less than my feelings."
 
If burning an inanimate object is all it takes to destabilize a country, then the country was never strong nor courageous enough to warrant existence in the first place. Culture, honour, courage, compassion, mercy, forgiveness--all characteristics which are immaterial. A person expressing rage against an object does not warrant an emotional response when you can purchase that object for $9.99 at a corner store and it's mass produced in casual fashion. If a person wants to purchase an item and then destroy it, the only person they are damaging is themselves--via the wanton destruction of their own property and wasted currency that the businessman will simply pocket and move on with. If a person steals someone else's flag and burns it, that is already a crime--theft under $5,000 and destruction of property, and should be prosecuted accordingly as per that set of laws, via an impartial judge and jury.

If we are to build a society of free men, built upon the foundation of generations of slain patriots, then we should honour their memory by embodying that which they valued and found most beloved... Which, overwhelmingly, were the ideas of their nation, not the symbols which represented it. The American flag elicits as much love as it does because of what it represents--not what it is--which is just a piece of fabric with a pattern woven into it.

I love my country's flag. This beautiful piece of nature to me represents multiculturalism and the bravery to accept that which is different from oneself. To build a society of a hundred cultures woven together on the same ground, working together toward the same common good of man. To another, it may represent centuries of imperialism and mass murder, and to them may be a symbol of disgust--the symbol of a conqueror. Whose feelings are more right? Mine? Why? Theirs? Why? What makes the feelings of one person any more or less valid than any other? Citizenship? Blood rights? Whoever happened to be born there first?

Freedom of Expression is one of the most valuable rights we have as a free nation. Without it, we are no better than the barbarians who blow up towers or mail sarin gas to people's houses. The first step toward forging a dystopian, authoritarian nightmare wherein perfectly innocent people are imprisoned, silenced, and murdered, is to state, with one voice, in many variations and languages...

"Your feelings are worth less than my feelings."

Wel, thing is, apparently burning a inanimate object IS enogh to destabilize your country. Not to mention escalate to tearing-down statues of historical figures, mass left vs. right riots, assholes running ppl down in the streets because of it, etc. etc. Plenty of... interesting... news from over there reaches us here. None of it particulary strong or courageus, in my considered opinion. And so here I go wondering yhy you put up vith it? "Freedom of Expresion", huh? Let me tell vhere too much freedom of expresion leads; it leads to chaos and anarchy, vhere evryone thinks any of there in-significant little pet-peeves they may have vith how a country is run, is enogh for them to start dis-respecting it. And a bunch of brain-washed parrots organizing mass-riots in the streets over things I dont think THEY them-selvs have any koncept why they riot over them.

If evry neurotic, bitchy, butt-hurt asshole had a right to "express" themselvs like that, thru vandalism, flag-burning and non-sensical riots, that is one society I wuld never want to be a part of. And tearing down statues? Seriusly?! How does tearing down a part of history make there cause any more "noble" (in quotations and vith a HUGE sarcastic smirk)? So yesss... freedom of expresion. Its good, in MODERATION. But if overdone, you end up with anarchy and chaos. Thats why I also belive total democracy is impossible. It is no diferent from anarchy.

And, back to the flag issue - its not just a "inanimate object", it is a simbol of your country. Its not a object of cloth and fiber, it is metaphysical, a stand-in for the soul of your country. And the fact that you think of it as a object, tells me that no, you dont really love your flag. I know how I think of my country's flag. It is SACRED to me. It is a icon worth killing and dying for, since it reprezents my country - as I vas teached to, during my army term, and firmly belive in, to this day. That, is patriotism.
 
And, back to the flag issue - its not just a "inanimate object", it is a simbol of your country. Its not a object of cloth and fiber, it is metaphysical, a stand-in for the soul of your country. And the fact that you think of it as a object, tells me that no, you dont really love your flag. I know how I think of my country's flag. It is SACRED to me. It is a icon worth killing and dying for, since it reprezents my country - as I vas teached to, during my army term, and firmly belive in, to this day. That, is patriotism.
And the fact that you think of it as a object, tells me that no, you dont really love your flag.
"Your feelings are worth less than my feelings."

Irony, thy name is the tapestry of oblivion.
 
Y57JUvK.gif
 
Lets see....
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/491/397

Huh, okay so the Supreme court of the USA made the decision that the desecration of the flag is, by law, legal and very much okay to do as a sign of protest. Good.

And what is this?...
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/496/310
The Supreme court also decided the same thing again and even added onto the protection, stating that no matter how offensive the desecration or burning of the flag may be, no law shall prohibit one's freedom of expression, no matter how offensive it may be. (At least in regards to flag-burning)


Now let's see...
https://www.aclu.org/other/reasons-oppose-flag-desecration-amendment
Huh, these are actually some pretty good reasons as to why the desecration of the flag is okay and why making it illegal is silly.

So by the looks of things it seems as though it should be perfectly okay to burn the flag, though when searching for any connection between flag-burning in protests and riots and violence, there seems to be none. Maybe if I burned the flag I'd suddenly become a super anarchist-terrorist? A test for later, perhaps...

hat person wuld end up in a hospital vith a concussion and a few stitches. Nobody disses my country while I'm around. Or if they do, they beter hope I dont catch them.

Though looking at this brings up a new question... but lookie here.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault_and_battery and possibly https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1113 by looking the the severity of such a statement. along with other charges...

This seems by law to be NOT okay, for obvious reasons. You have every right to be mad and offended but there is no reason to harm another person that's not bringing initial harm upon you. The jail-time looks severe as well. So that adds to the obvious that you'd be greatly in the wrong, if not more wrong than the person burning the flag, as is their legal freedom to do under the constitutional right of freedom of speech, as deemed by the Supreme court.

As for my personal opinion, it is the same as Nilum's. There is no harm in flag-burning other than to yourself. Therefore there is no reason against burning a materiel product bought cheaply at stores that take less care of them than you'd like to imagine if said flag isn't wrapped in plastic already. Even the manufacturers don't give two damns about it. And saying that the rights of the flag is more important than the rights of a fellow human being is almost disgusting at best. Especially when living in a country that is proud for being so free that it even legalized burning of it's own flag.
 
Just a reminder of the Discussion and Debates rules. As stated, there is to be no personal attacks against people for their views. If you could wind it back, please.

Civility, ladies.
 
It's okay to burn the American flag because our rights end where others' begin. Just as everyone is legally allowed to burn the flag, everyone is legally allowed to protest against it. Like any other constitutional form of speech.

This was already decided on in Texas v. Johnson. There are limitations, of course, like any other civil liberty, but you will generally not be arrested for simply the act burning the American flag.
 
Though looking at this brings up a new question... but lookie here.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault_and_battery and possibly https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1113 by looking the the severity of such a statement. along with other charges...

Wel, good thing I dont live there, and am not subjekt to those laws. Over here, sentences for assault are laughable (from personal expirience, one time I had to get non-verbal on a guy harrassing me, he ended up in a ambulance for concusion, I ended up 2 hours in a precinct explaining vhat hapened, then they cut me loose, since the guy wuldnt press charges; nothing to press, I had a witness who backed me up, seen vhat hapened; even if its harder for me since I alredy served some time before, so I got a police file). And frankly I like it that way. More lee-way for ppl like me who like to take care of there own problems, and makes ppl think very carefuly when and how wil they act like assholes to each-other, and be respectful and polite to each other, and evrything else around them, since fists begin to fly VERY easy here, if you start acting up. And flag burning.... oh yeaaa, try that here. Our HČSP far-rights wil work your over in some dark alley by tomorow, if I dont beat them to it first. And the police, they wil look the other way, since most of them are nationalists to begin vith, and let street-justice take its course.

"Freedom of Expresion" is a privilege here, not a right. Especialy vhen it comes to fucking vith national simbols.
 
Wel, good thing I dont live there, and am not subjekt to those laws. Over here, sentences for assault are laughable (from personal expirience, one time I had to get non-verbal on a guy harrassing me, he ended up in a ambulance for concusion, I ended up 2 hours in a precinct explaining vhat hapened, then they cut me loose, since the guy wuldnt press charges; nothing to press, I had a witness who backed me up, seen vhat hapened; even if its harder for me since I alredy served some time before, so I got a police file). And frankly I like it that way. More lee-way for ppl like me who like to take care of there own problems, and makes ppl think very carefuly when and how wil they act like assholes to each-other, and be respectful and polite to each other, and evrything else around them, since fists begin to fly VERY easy here, if you start acting up. And flag burning.... oh yeaaa, try that here. Our HČSP far-rights wil work your over in some dark alley by tomorow, if I dont beat them to it first. And the police, they wil look the other way, since most of them are nationalists to begin vith, and let street-justice take its course.

"Freedom of Expresion" is a privilege here, not a right. Especialy vhen it comes to fucking vith national simbols.
Here is where I point out that I personally don't care about your life experience because it's pointless since everyone has different experiences in life. Some people have it better off, other's don't. Either way my point stands since your country still does hold laws that're meant to prohibit you from assaulting others without due cause. You're not meant to be allowed to assault, severely injure or kill other people within your society and doing so is supposed to have the effect of you going to jail or sentenced to death should your country practice such.

Your lack of freedom of expression is the only point you made that interests me. And that is simply because it explains your point of view. Here in the Americas (Including the territories and Canada), while it is frowned upon here in these countries, it is still protected under the clause of freedom of expression. Most people here are allowed to burn the flag, as is their given right. You are not because the laws in your country fail to accept it.
 
without due cause

This just tells me you didnt understand a word I sayed. Flag burning IS a due cause, in my view, and if I ever seen anyone burning my flag, they wuld pay for it. Period. Laws not with standing. As for anyone elses flag... I dont care, not my problem or my country. That is all I wanted to point out.

Here in the Americas (Including the territories and Canada), while it is frowned upon here in these countries, it is still protected under the clause of freedom of expression. Most people here are allowed to burn the flag, as is their given right.

And thats your problem, in my view... giving assholes like that too much freedom of expresion, then they get nasty. Then you end up in anarchy and riots, and slowly edge to brink of civil war. Yay for your laws! Thank god I dont live there.
 
Back
Top