Is the paranormal world real?

Dr. Creepster

Dr. Creepster

New Member
I am a skeptic, but can't deny the excistence of for example ghost, because it can't be disproved yet. What do you think?
 
I would love to think that there is something else out there! There are some things that just can not be explained with science? Right?
 
I'd love to say I do, but as a realist, I think it's important to assess that ghosts are most likely ideas passed down by our ancestors over superstitions they could not explain, leading to this idea of the supernatural in modern culture. What our ancestors could not understand through their contemporary science, is perpetrated through generations, leading to these ideas of the supernaturally be believed between us. Logically, these ghosts most likely don't exist, and are cultural phenomena.
 
Considering we have been completely wrong about our ideas on sciences that we've used for decades, I think it's best to keep an open mind. I've seen enough to convince me, personally, but I also understand why people would disagree. It's a very subjective subject.
 
Dr. Creepster said:
I am a skeptic, but can't deny the excistence of for example ghost, because it can't be disproved yet. What do you think?
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Ghosts will never be disproved. I don't think that that is how science works. One can easily deny their existence by saying that there is no sufficient (or any, depending which one you are willing to defend) evidence for them.
 
Dr. Creepster said:
I am a skeptic, but can't deny the excistence of for example ghost, because it can't be disproved yet.
Click to expand...
In-ter-est-ing.

I, too, am a skeptic. I do not believe in the supernatural, whatsoever. Here, let me give you a surefire way of dealing with the "I can't disprove it" problem.

Can you disprove the existence of an invisible pink unicorn? It is invisible, therefore, how would we ever find it? If we search, and don't find it, does that mean it doesn't exist? How do you find evidence to disprove something's existence when the evidence that proves its non-existence would in fact require its existence to begin with?

Simple, really: Check to see if a claim can be falsified. If it can be falsified, it can be tested. If it can be tested, then it falls within the realm of science. If a claim cannot be falsified, then it cannot be tested, and that is a matter exclusively of faith--whether that is Pink Unicornism, or a faith in the supernatural.

Eg1: "If I throw an apple into the air, it will come back down." <- Falsifiable. The claim presents a situation in which it can be tested, and if the claim should prove incorrect, then its predictive power fails. If however it succeeds, then it holds predictive power, and the theory is strengthened.

Eg2: "If I dig up an Indian burial ground, I will be cursed." <- Under what condition can we test what a "curse" is? Is it tangible, is it a form of energy that can be measured? If it can be explained by coincidence, then it has no verifiable state, which means it has no real predictive value.

I've yet to find a single theory about the supernatural that has withstood the test of being falsifiable and been found worthy. If it were, it would be called natural. :p
 
I am a rather open-minded individual, and as such do believe that ghosts exist. Though I have yet to see one nor I do pursue trying to find one, I do not doubt their existence. Ghosts never have to be some sort of silvery wisp; they can be completely invisible or otherwise not perceived. So, in my opinion, they probably exist, we just may never be able to confirm it. Paranormal is a term for inhuman events, not some terrifying silver dude with a tail floating around your place.

Uh, is it like, a requirement to write a novel for every post? I'm seeing a lot of that around. :p
 
I'm a little skeptical on ghosts tbh, but I do believe in the idea of an afterlife and souls and stuff, so I'm not completely unbelieving. If anything, I believe in demons more than I do ghosts.
 
It'd be pretty damn cool if stuff like that exists, and it just might. I believe nothing until it can be proven by multiple reliable sources, and there are events unable to be explained by modern science, so who knows?
 
Well it is something of interest!

I am a occultist and a pagan, I do and have seen the supernatural. Spirits that haven’t moved on, Demons, and those disgusting entities called Angels. Though you could classify me as insane if you must.

We live in a world split between our mistakes, our own inner evil and the good. This planet called Earth is like a prison in the sense for the soul. If we do not pass the tests given to us here, we live yet again on this Hell. Once we do pass the tests, death becomes the true beginning. It’s not simply empty and dark full of nothingness. It is the awakening of your true form, becoming a full part of the universe as it’s called. To fully explain my beliefs would be pretty much the definition of insanity. Instead what I’ve stated above is my belief on why we see no other life forms as we are stuck on a playground for the puppet masters.
Hmm... now I lost what my point was for your question. Oh well, I stated something.
 
I belive that we will never know. There must be something true though, it cannot be everything unreal.
 
Dr. Creepster said:
I am a skeptic, but can't deny the excistence of for example ghost, because it can't be disproved yet. What do you think?
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I'm religious annnnnd....

I don't believe in any paranormal activity on earth. While I do hold my faith in god (In the Jewish sense) seriously, I believe he is a being above our own existence and that we are ants to his ever present gaze. Neither good nor evil and rather the balance holder of all things. That said, when it comes to earth and the reality in which we live in, I don't believe in any of that junk. Simply for the reasons that Nilum pointed out. It can't be proven and the burden of proof is a thing that exists and should be followed. These things are said to be physically present within the world and as such we should have evidence and proof that they exist. There aren't a question for these things that'd allow it to exist outside our world so that's an issue as is. Where god, there is the good ol' phrase "well, what created the big bang? what came before? what caused it?" Things that science is still delving into to try and answer. There are hypothesis and theories but nothing truly concrete yet as we're still discovering many things about our universe. Not to say we don't have pieces to a puzzle unsolved, but it still allows some possibility to a greater power. The most important detail of god is that he is "older than time." and "There before all things" as the "Creator of all things" so there will always be the question of "and before that?" or some other solution that might allow the possibility of god to exist should there be one. Partly because of this, I decided to put my faith in that there is one and while the burden of proof is mine to show, I'm eager for science to search for all answers on the subject to answer such a question.

As for these paranormal things, they're always said to be tangible and of this reality, affecting it in it's current time. Because of this, I find it obvious that we should be able to find proof of them and their existence far more easily than god. Nilum's pink invisible unicorn is a bad example in comparison to god but a perfect one for the paranormal because it'd be of our reality and be able to affect it in a way. If one did exist it'd affect the tangible world and as such can be proven proven to exist if it did. People would bump into said unicorn, they could get stabbed by it's horn, tracks could be made from it's invisible hoofs and other things would happen if it did exist. Just like Bigfoot or the lochness monster would be able to affect the world if they did exist. If ghosts or demons or angels exist like in paranormal activity or other movies than they too would leave a heavier trace and be far, far more common in every-day people's lives than they are. There would be some form of proof because they're commonly represented to affect and interact with our reality in our current date and time. Because of that there should be some form of proof of their existence. Because the proof of them thus-far presented in insufficient or proven to be false, I think it's more than logical to declare these things non-existent.
 
Guess I'll throw in my two cents.

I'm a Buddhist, and my mother is wiccan and highly spiritual. This is context for my current beliefs about the topic: A big fat maybe.
I hold a strong belief that these sorts of things are only as real as one wishes them to be. Surely there are reasons for many superstitions (Salt, spirits, etc), but one of the strongest in my eyes, especially with the occult and the paranormal, is that people have a powerful desire to seek affirmation that there is a life after death, and "Ghosts" or "spirits" are just an affirmation of one. This in turn then, either consciously or not, inspires them to assign meaning to things they otherwise can't explain themselves.

My belief, however, is, as stated before, simply a "maybe". There could be ghosts, there could be God or gods, there could be nothing. However, due to the nature of these "entities", there is no way to prove or disprove them, so I simply think "They probably aren't real, but I wouldn't be too shocked if they were."

TL;DR: You're all wrong, the end is nigh, daemons must be purged
 
Considering the amount of folklore, legends, myths, and written lore for the real world, it is very difficult to ignore the existence of that which the majority of the world has accepted. Religion and cultures have both explained them in various ways, such as benevolent or devilish creations left after someone has died, or being created for a different purpose.
I do accept that they can exist, as I do accept a lot of things can exist. I've never personally seen a ghost or a means of which the supernatural have shown themselves, though I admit I freak out whenever the lights flicker for no discernible reason. Ninety-nine percent demons, and one percent actual electrical problems, as I have been told by Dean and Sam.
 
I personally believe in the paranormal and have had several experiences with it. But, it's not the same as in movies.
Call me crazy, but I believe.
 
Nilum said:
In-ter-est-ing.

I, too, am a skeptic. I do not believe in the supernatural, whatsoever. Here, let me give you a surefire way of dealing with the "I can't disprove it" problem.

Can you disprove the existence of an invisible pink unicorn? It is invisible, therefore, how would we ever find it? If we search, and don't find it, does that mean it doesn't exist? How do you find evidence to disprove something's existence when the evidence that proves its non-existence would in fact require its existence to begin with?
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I know this is a super old post buuuut....

This is a terrible analogy. It's a unicorn, which is essentially a horse. Which means that even if it's invisible, it has weight. It has mass. You'd find it the same way you find any other animal: tracks, markings, evidence of its presence even when you can't see it. An invisible unicorn is not on another plane of existence. It'd leave hoofprints. You you can run into it if it doesn't move out of your way. Presumably it eats something, so you'd see evidence of its food source being depleted.


But you're probably going to say something like "You knew what I meant. If ghosts don't have a corporeal form, how can we know they exist?"

As-of-yet undiscovered technology, perhaps? Going back to the invisible unicorn, we could probably see it through infrared. Or ultraviolet. Human eyes can't see that, but we have equipment that can. Or possibly even better: thermal imaging. If the unicorn is a living animal like all other animals, it's going to give off heat. This would be detectable through FLIR. Similarly, many claim that ghosts produce cold spots. So similarly, we could see if a ghost appears on FLIR by looking for odd shapes at much lower temperatures than ambient.

But, enough about ghosts. I believe they exist, but I also believe they are far, far, far more rare than people claim. Let's talk about something else. Something that is also technically paranormal: our aura or qi/chi.
The theory of this existing is widespread through some cultures and has a long history, maybe even longer than ghosts. How to measure it? How to tell if it exists? What is it really?

Perhaps Kirlian Photography or GDV (Gas Discharge Visualization) can help with that? And some people have used those to try and prove that, not only does the aura and chi exist, but so do psychic vampires.

Am I going to sit here and say those things are definitely provable now and are no longer supernatural? No. I just want to convey that just because science hasn't proven it, or just because we have not yet reached a metric of measurement for its existence, does not mean it does not exist at all.
I mean, Ball lightning has been around since the 1630's, but was only caught on video good enough to be considered an actual real thing in 2014. And we still can't explain it.
Combined with the fact that much of science is unfortunately political (who wants to fund/publish something most people don't even think is a real thing in the first place?), there are several barriers to even begin studying paranormal things, let alone doing so with any serious credence. So there's not a lot of people even wanting to test these hypotheses to begin with.

So all I'm saying is, you don't have to be a believer, but maybe don't shut down the argument so quickly.

I've yet to find a single theory about the supernatural that has withstood the test of being falsifiable and been found worthy. If it were, it would be called natural. :p
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So, a question then?
What do you think about aliens? Or at least, life outside of Earth? Do you believe it exists? How would you prove it, if so?
 
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I don't know if ghosts necessarily exist, I've never seen any decent evidence of them and one of my favorite pictures of ghosts (The Brown Lady) recently got debunked, though I do believe in planes beyond our own (Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, etc.). I don't know if anything from these planes, can actually cross into our world or if they're solely bound to their worlds as we are to ours.

That said, you'll never see me attempting any sort of conjuring like Ouija boards, "One Man Hide and Seek", or "The Three Kings Ritual" (though at this point I don't know if those last two are just Creepypastas). I don't think they would ever work but I really don't want to be that person who does one of these to prove it's not possible and end up getting haunted.

So yeah, I think it would be really cool to believe that entities from beyond our plane are hanging out with us and I feel like if I wasn't vengeful it would be kind of fun to be a ghost, but I find it hard to accept.
 
I hope so. It could be interesting and fun. I do believe there are extremely many things we don’t understand yet but I also think that since ghosts can’t be disproven therefore it’s possible it’s just mysteries.
 
Anything anything that cannot be verified through any scientific methods either through repeated testing or observation through any controlled environments has no reason to even be considered through. It's especially true for things that allegedly breaks the very laws of physics, pasterns and properties of matter that's been proven beyond a doubt.

For instance, ghosts are often described as the sprites that leave the human body, usually after death. They seemed to be the living consciousness of humans that can somehow interact with the physical world. However we do know that emotions, memories and even consciousness are the distinct product of the human brain, and other animals also have a advanced consciousness as well. We also know that matter reacts with matter, if it's not physical in someway, it simply wouldn't react with anything, in fact it doesn't even exist in the first place. So for something to have any sort of influence on the world, it must be made of something and therefor can be subject to any experiments and observation put forward.

This is important because for human consciousness to escape the human body, it would have to essentially be some form of matter, discovered or not yet discovered. This is especially true for if certain ghosts can be seen because it means that some kind of matter is producing light waves, which are detectable and makes things easy to study.

It's best to list the qualities of ghosts and see if what it means for them. Just to determine their existence.

1) Ghost are invisible. - Scientifically possible, either the foreign matter doesn't react with photons or they're amazingly transparent.
2) Ghost can move through objects- Scientifically possible again. Matter is already 99% empty space, the only reason why things touch is because the electron's negative charge repel the bodies of matter.
3) Ghosts can sometimes influence matter- This means they need electrons since it's really just the existence of electrons repelling each other that prevents stuff from going through each other.
4) They can sometimes be seen. So it means they can either be solid enough for light to reflect through them, or they produce their own light by emitting photons
5) They have weight, if 3 and four are correct then they must be influenced by gravity. Especially if they remain on the earth. Anything not affected by the gravitational force would just be floating around in space. And if some sort of matter is somehow immune to gravity, it needs to be expelling it's own force in order to remain on earth. So either it's affected by gravity or it's making it's own force to remain on earth, either ways, it has weight.


So we have 5 basic qualities of ghost that they must have, in order to exist. Honestly, scientist have discovered much stranger things so really ghost should be easy. It produces photons, it has weight and it can influence matter somehow. So let's device an experiment a simple one to see if we can at least have some sort of evidence, any evidence. It's important to not that science doesn't prove things, rather it disproves or fails to disproves. So we'll have to either disprove the existence of ghosts or fail to disprove them.

Since ghosts comes from humans. And considering they have some sort of weight, then one experiment should be simple. Measure the weight of humans before and after death. If ghosts comes from humans and they exist then we should at least expect a very, very slight weight change with all other variables taken into consideration. The weight of a human, even if it is just 0.001 gram should disappear without a trace. If we do see that humans get lighter upon the moment of death with all variables considered that the conclusion would be that we failed to disprove that ghosts exist.... yet.


So follow that logic and deduce any other experiments that might work in discovering a ghost. Then work it out for anything supernatural
 
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