XP and Level Ups in Roleplay

[Imperatus Rex]

Many of us have grown up around, or at least have played, games that involve an EXP/XP system. The drill is, you kill stuff or do something skillful, and get these points that mean you are more experienced at it. Over time you learn new skills and get stronger with EXP. The question is... why isn't it used in written roleplays more often?

Since the beginning of time it seems like god modders have plagued roleplaying. Whether this is just their preference or if it is just them not noticing, it can be awful to experience and read. With an efficient EXP and skill system, perhaps this can be taken care of, or at least better monitored.

This goes beyond anti-god-modding, it gives the player a better sense of their abilities. They also feel accomplishment upon getting strong enough to crush skulls with one glance.

Here are some concept layouts for an experience system that could be better revised.
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A simple combat system that involves XP upon killing enemies or finishing a task. Attack speeds and strength are based on vague guidelines of their stats.

"The warrior slashes at the goblin with his sword, decapitating it due to his excessive agility and strength. [+17 xp] However, his recovery from such a blow was too slow to prevent a goblin from clawing at his legs."
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A combat system that would be more difficult to utilize, with the success of attacks based on a D&D dice roll. XP upon killing or completing tasks. This would need some heavy revisions to be useful. Might not be good for immersion either. Note: Cheating is far too easy with this system.

"The warrior slashes at the goblin with his sword (d8=7), decapitating it due to his excessive agility and strength. [+17 xp] Recovering from the slash (d20=17), he barely spun around in time to block the other goblins attack."
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A Level-Up system that utilizes a set number of skill and stat points per level. The Level up might be a separate post, depending. I sampled the D&D attributes for this example. Attributes strengthened are bolded to make them easily seen.

Stat Points: 2
Strength:12+1=13
Constitution:9
Dexterity:14
Intelligence:18
Wisdom:15+1=16
Charisma:13

Skill Points: 1
Quarter-Staff: 4-Competent, +1=5-Skilled
Bartering: 12-Master
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This is just a rough concept, feel free to discuss a better method. If you want, suggest a different system you like.

 

[Ouverture]

it gives the player a better sense of their abilities. They also feel accomplishment upon getting strong enough to crush skulls with one glance.

You are absolutely correct in this. The major advantage to an EXP system is keeping track of growth and progress and the satisfaction that comes from it.

A simple combat system that involves XP upon killing enemies or finishing a task. Attack speeds and strength are based on vague guidelines of their stats.

"The warrior slashes at the goblin with his sword, decapitating it due to his excessive agility and strength. [+17 xp] However, his recovery from such a blow was too slow to prevent a goblin from clawing at his legs."

This does not work for the simple reason that players will feel forced to engage in certain actions in order to grow faster or even keep up. It also punishes players very harshly if they are forced to take a hiatus because of IRL events, being relatively weaker compared to their co-players when they jump back in. I've found rewards, unless the reward itself isn't substantial, should be spread over larger periods of time. You don't gain EXP during a story arc, you gain EXP for finishing an arc. You can still encourage different styles of play, like add a reward for specific actions like teamwork or taking a punch realistically, to add a small bonus on top. However, this bonus has to be small as to not create large power gaps between players. Large power gaps will hinder fresh players from joining your RP mid-game. You don't want that.

It is very important that you realise that the inherent strength of growth tracking and satisfaction are also an EXP system's greatest potential downfall. Because roleplays occur over the span of a long time, alongside, well, life.

A combat system that would be more difficult to utilize, with the success of attacks based on a D&D dice roll. XP upon killing or completing tasks. This would need some heavy revisions to be useful. Might not be good for immersion either. Note: Cheating is far too easy with this system.

"The warrior slashes at the goblin with his sword (d8=7), decapitating it due to his excessive agility and strength. [+17 xp] Recovering from the slash (d20=17), he barely spun around in time to block the other goblins attack."

Not... Really. The problem here is more that if you want to base actions on dice rolls, you need someone to roll those dice for you. This results either in very short posts, or more practical issues like time constraints when trying to find windows to get your GM to do it for you. What I found is the biggest issue, however, is that many roleplayers aren't gamers first, they're writers first. They care about the way they feel, their character feels, building up to it and planning subsequent actions and consequences in advance. If you have to roll every time, while it certainly works for a niche, a lot of players have difficulty with this because it forces them to think more on their feet.

A Level-Up system that utilizes a set number of skill and stat points per level. The Level up might be a separate post, depending. I sampled the D&D attributes for this example. Attributes strengthened are bolded to make them easily seen.

Stat Points: 2
Strength:12+1=13
Constitution:9
Dexterity:14
Intelligence:18
Wisdom:15+1=16
Charisma:13

Skill Points: 1
Quarter-Staff: 4-Competent, +1=5-Skilled
Bartering: 12-Master

In a play-by-post environment, you absolutely do not want to work with intelligence and charisma, because those are open to interpretation and because someone's character has a high charisma stat, doesn't mean their player invokes the image of a persuasive conversationalist. In D&D it doesn't matter as much because of it's short interaction cycles and the scene progression depending more on the DM and the individual player their interpretation. In roleplay, all your communication regarding scenes happens in your post. Strength, on the other hand, will absolutely help with clashes and relative damage done when you play with higher power-scales. As written description is not nearly as difficult to portray strength with as it is for intelligence or charisma.

I could say a lot more about EXP and levelling systems and it's an interesting topic, but I find it's very important to keep the medium and it's strengths and constraints in mind, versus plainly taking a system from D&D or videogames. When using or creating one, always keep in consideration you're roleplaying in a PbP environment.

 

[Captainsnowflake]

There is the possibility that it can deter new players (in long roleplays at least, or roleplays which have been around for awhile) in the fact that the oldest players will be more powerful. There are ways to nerf this and roleplay should be about character development and interaction more than exp gain and similar things anyway, but just something to consider I think. Exp systems can be quite good in the ways you point out though, so pros and cons

 

[Imperatus Rex]

There is the possibility that it can deter new players (in long roleplays at least, or roleplays which have been around for awhile) in the fact that the oldest players will be more powerful. There are ways to nerf this and roleplay should be about character development and interaction more than exp gain and similar things anyway, but just something to consider I think. Exp systems can be quite good in the ways you point out though, so pros and cons

The old players would certainly be stronger, but they might be more inclined to battle stronger monsters and players on their level. A new player can fight monsters, do quests, and fight others on their levels without clashing heads with the grand-masters. Just a thought, feel free to point out the issues.

 

[Captainsnowflake]

The old players would certainly be stronger, but they might be more inclined to battle stronger monsters and players on their level. A new player can fight monsters, do quests, and fight others on their levels without clashing heads with the grand-masters. Just a thought, feel free to point out the issues.

Ahhh yeah that is very true. And it would mean that sticking with the game and doing a lot in it is more rewarding and probably promote players to stay on longer. I mean tbh that is one of the ways around it, as long as you can cater for every level bracket (for example, quests specifically for say levels 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 etc depending on the leveling system used). No reason it can't work, so long as whoever does use the system takes into account the level gap that might be created

 

[Imperatus Rex]

Ahhh yeah that is very true. And it would mean that sticking with the game and doing a lot in it is more rewarding and probably promote players to stay on longer. I mean tbh that is one of the ways around it, as long as you can cater for every level bracket (for example, quests specifically for say levels 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 etc depending on the leveling system used). No reason it can't work, so long as whoever does use the system takes into account the level gap that might be created

Catering to each level bracket would take a bit of time to flesh out. However, a GM could make a rubric for the level brackets if they needed an additional quest for someone. There would have to be an interesting motivation to get stronger, of course. Going from fighting rats to fighting dragons isn't the greatest award for some players.

 

[Imperatus Rex]

I could say a lot more about EXP and levelling systems and it's an interesting topic, but I find it's very important to keep the medium and it's strengths and constraints in mind, versus plainly taking a system from D&D or videogames. When using or creating one, always keep in consideration you're roleplaying in a PbP environment.

Thank you for adding so much to this.

The attribute points were just sampled from D&D as a placeholder of attributes you would really use. Adding small rewards over time would be more efficient, but it really does mitigate some of the satisfaction. It would work well in a roleplay perhaps, but some people want to be capable of grinding for power. This would offset the balance for new players of course, so would there be a way to compromise?

 

[Ouverture]

Adding small rewards over time would be more efficient, but it really does mitigate some of the satisfaction. It would work well in a roleplay perhaps, but some people want to be capable of grinding for power. This would offset the balance for new players of course, so would there be a way to compromise?

You can have big rewards over finishing big tasks. The trick is to keep players on a relatively even level. This also answers your second point. You don't compromise. You prioritise accessibility over the growth of an individual.

To illustrate, I designed a mission-based roleplay. Essentially, every mission was a self-contained story, with the result affecting future missions and the overarching plot. Different groups of people were in different missions at the same time, but they were completing over similar spans of time. At the end of a mission, each player got a guaranteed level up. This gave them stat and skill points to spend. Stat points were pure power levels. Skills were mostly small bonuses and utilities (every player had a set of 3 magic spells as their main arsenal from the start, anyway.) So, basically the level-up was party wide, depending on how many mission-rounds had succeeded. So if new players joined, they'd already be on level 4 if 4 mission rounds were completed.

There was one more system in place, however, to reward older players. This was the achievement system, similar to what the ps4 and xbox do. Except every single one of them was hidden until a player would earn them, then they would be revealed. You could only earn one achievement per mission, so the boost was relatively small. However the marginal power boost these achievements provided was, not nearly enough to make newer characters obsolete, but did make older characters feel more senior by comparison. These achievements accumulated, sure. However, newer players would always know what to do to earn the same ones already earned before and older players would either go after achievements others had but they didn't, or try to find the remaining ones dubbed ??? This sometimes would mean older characters would have a harder time to earn new achievements, which also slightly evened out the power balance by tightening but not removing the gap.

The old players would certainly be stronger, but they might be more inclined to battle stronger monsters and players on their level. A new player can fight monsters, do quests, and fight others on their levels without clashing heads with the grand-masters. Just a thought, feel free to point out the issues.

That's basically saying to new players "I know you joined the same game, but you haven't EARNED the right to do the cool stuff everyone else is doing." Which, well... It's hard enough for newer players to integrate in an older roleplay. I would not go for this approach. Roleplays thrive on interactions and new players tend to join one by one rather than in clusters, it's very important they are integrated in the group. If you make them do separate tasks from the main group, they're not part of the roleplay. They will feel left out and drop the game because of it.

 

[Nilum]

I wouldn't use a hard turn-based stat system unless you plan on providing a full grid to go with it. At which point, you should probably just be doing a tabletop.

That being said, incorporating trait-like characteristics to help ground characters into particular roles or aspects of the universe you have can be useful. Legend of Renalta used a background system to let players choose from one of twenty backgrounds to help ingrain their characters into the world and to give them a better idea of what to create. It has its place, but, hard stats will slow things down, a lot.

 

[Soulserenity20]

Many of us have grown up around, or at least have played, games that involve an EXP/XP system. The drill is, you kill stuff or do something skillful, and get these points that mean you are more experienced at it. Over time you learn new skills and get stronger with EXP. The question is... why isn't it used in written roleplays more often?

Since the beginning of time it seems like god modders have plagued roleplaying. Whether this is just their preference or if it is just them not noticing, it can be awful to experience and read. With an efficient EXP and skill system, perhaps this can be taken care of, or at least better monitored.

This goes beyond anti-god-modding, it gives the player a better sense of their abilities. They also feel accomplishment upon getting strong enough to crush skulls with one glance.

Here are some concept layouts for an experience system that could be better revised.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A simple combat system that involves XP upon killing enemies or finishing a task. Attack speeds and strength are based on vague guidelines of their stats.

"The warrior slashes at the goblin with his sword, decapitating it due to his excessive agility and strength. [+17 xp] However, his recovery from such a blow was too slow to prevent a goblin from clawing at his legs."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A combat system that would be more difficult to utilize, with the success of attacks based on a D&D dice roll. XP upon killing or completing tasks. This would need some heavy revisions to be useful. Might not be good for immersion either. Note: Cheating is far too easy with this system.

"The warrior slashes at the goblin with his sword (d8=7), decapitating it due to his excessive agility and strength. [+17 xp] Recovering from the slash (d20=17), he barely spun around in time to block the other goblins attack."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Level-Up system that utilizes a set number of skill and stat points per level. The Level up might be a separate post, depending. I sampled the D&D attributes for this example. Attributes strengthened are bolded to make them easily seen.

Stat Points: 2
Strength:12+1=13
Constitution:9
Dexterity:14
Intelligence:18
Wisdom:15+1=16
Charisma:13

Skill Points: 1
Quarter-Staff: 4-Competent, +1=5-Skilled
Bartering: 12-Master
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just a rough concept, feel free to discuss a better method. If you want, suggest a different system you like.

In my RP, I use a system of points out of 100. I have labeled levels throughout, like, novice, adept, skilled, master, sage, and what not. Each of those levels serves two purposes: to give the player a concept to go off of in terms of how to consider their char's skill level, and to indicate how many bonus points they get to mod their rolls in my dice system.

I give points out in one of two ways:
1. One point per 2 posts in the down season. (by down season, I mean normal posting.)
2. One point per post in the events plus award points for achieving certain goals in the events.

It works well for me. And because I have the labels, my players don't have to use the dice system to be able to responsibly play within the skill range their characters are at. That being said, my players are usually very mature and responsible. If I had a player who insisted on god modding, they'd be stuck rolling dice for everything haha

 

[Rainjay]

I haven't read the entire discussion here but I'll throw my hat in:

I did at one point have a roleplay (which lasted about a week, mind you) in which a stat system was implemented. I didn't really use XP because, from a previous game experience, it got way too complicated--this previous roleplay was one based on the sucked-into-a-RPG trope, and so included scripted quests, including XP and stats which were to be managed by a GM and included in each post by the roleplayers involved for dice rolls and what not. But I otherwise included a series of stats, included the how-to calculate for them, and how they would be used in the story itself. Kind of based on an honor system for some stats, and others were a "If you roll between this range, you deal no/light/medium/heavy damage and write it as you see fit". It was fairly positively received (not the reason the roleplay didn't make it out of it's beginning stages) and I'm quite proud of it. But I can also see why it's a huge turn off for forum style roleplay...

There's a fine line to walk between turning it into D&D and keeping it forum roleplay, and I don't find it well walked very often. The idea my partner and I had was to use it partly for funsies and partly to keep a combat-heavy based plot from going too far (the godmodding or powerplaying). But some people have stat systems just to have them, many are poorly utilized, etc..

While it does work well against godmodding/powerplay, it's so frequently ineffectively utilized that it doesn't make a difference, deters players or kills the game entirely. D&D is niche because of that; my father loved it because he enjoys sitting around and fiddling with numbers all day. Most roleplayers I've seen would rather imagine the consequences rather than have some dice tell them what happens. And of course that can result in two entirely different styles of play and storytelling--sometimes one is more realistic than the other and one can be funner at different times. But I can't say I wish I saw more of the two mixed, because it can go so easily wrong.

And I did see mentioned were more qualitative attributed--charisma and intelligence--that can be used for dice rolls (in Soul's game, for instance, using this kind of stat for NPC interaction and stuff works well) but oftentimes I've seen are used poorly as well... i.e. roll charisma to determine if another person's character reacts well to what yours just said, or an intelligence roll for the ability to read a book (things that should normally be within a players ability to determine and script).

Not... Really. The problem here is more that if you want to base actions on dice rolls, you need someone to roll those dice for you. This results either in very short posts, or more practical issues like time constraints when trying to find windows to get your GM to do it for you. What I found is the biggest issue, however, is that many roleplayers aren't gamers first, they're writers first. They care about the way they feel, their character feels, building up to it and planning subsequent actions and consequences in advance. If you have to roll every time, while it certainly works for a niche, a lot of players have difficulty with this because it forces them to think more on their feet.

And this rings true more than anything; all dice rolls just make writing really choppy. You have to wait for a GM to determine outcomes and check dice, and then the outcome doesn't always align with what you feel should happen. That can really frustrate players even more.

I absolutely love some dice rolls: did I successfully convince an NPC to believe me? Did I land the finishing move? Was I able to learn anything from this strange object? But being told I missed an attack by random chance and lost a limb--that's no fun.


Either way... the way my partner and I tried to circumvent these issues were by specifying when dice rolls would be used and ensuring each stat had a purpose. I don't think anybody wants to read the whole thing, but it was a rather simple system based on the stat and a D20. Roll and combine to determine outcome based on an event-basis chart.